FINAL Shalsee Podcast Saved version!
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Bethany: Hello, welcome to the Evolve Vets podcast.
Anna: I'm Anna.
Bethany: And I'm Bethany. And we're two vet school besties who took our passion for growth and innovation and turned it into a method for the modern vet to thrive.
Anna: After quickly rising into leadership roles, we dove deep into the world of self development. Along the way, we saw others dealing with anxiety, Perfectionism, imbalance, and burnout. So we took everything we learned and curated it into exactly what we wished we'd had earlier on in our careers, and now we're sharing it with you.
Together, let's stop revolving and start evolving.
Anna: Hey y'all, welcome back to the Evolved Vets podcast. We are so excited that you guys are listening and we are really grateful for all the feedback that we've heard so far. [00:01:00] We have women- even some men- reaching out to us all the time, telling us stories about how they've listened to this podcast and then they've been inspired to do X, Y, Z,- maybe start their own morning routine, started journaling, practice, start a business- so many different things. So we're really grateful for all the feedback and thank you for continuing to listen and just a reminder to please download, subscribe, rate, and review us because it really helps us be able to get the podcast out to more and more people and to be able to inspire even more veterinarians .
Bethany: Today we have a very special treat. We have our near and dear Dr. Chelsea here. The reason that Anna and I were so inspired to have Chelsea on our podcast is she's this incredible leader. She doesn't back down when things get scary or there might be fear.
She looks at it and just grabs the bull by the horns and says , "Let me go on this eight second ride." And you absolutely crush everything you do. And there's such an ownership mentality [00:02:00] about every action you take. You come to veterinary medicine with this amazing spirit.
I remember the day that I interviewed you. There was just an immediate connection because I heard your passion for emergency medicine and the deep desire that you had to change our profession for the better. It was just so inspiring for me to find somebody else that connects for the people in our profession and how changing emergency medicine is so important to the future of veterinary medicine for every veterinarian to be treated equally and fairly.
And that is just such a standout.
Bethany: Right now you are currently leading a hospital team as medical director, which is really impressive. And honestly, it's been such a journey watching you learn and really stand up and show up for your people. I think one of the best things about having you on our team is that you actually find the gap in something that's happening and then you're able to find a solution and innovate on it, and then bring that solution to life by bringing people along.
That's such a unique quality [00:03:00] and like a true exemplification of the ownership mindset. And you have a really cool, awesome story, which I hope you tell us about. So Anna and I were just so inspired to have you on because of all those amazing things.
Bethany: We'd love to hear a little bit about your story.
Anna: It's so true. And we are very grateful that you're hosting us in your living room on your cozy couch. We're very happy to be here.
Shalsee: Well, I'm really excited to be doing this. I think that. It's really funny coming from two very inspirational leaders to be talking about someone like that. I will absolutely, without a doubt get emotional through this. I have no doubt.
Anna: Because we are fans, fans of crying. There is space for emotions. We love space for emotions. So they are allowed.
Shalsee: I don't think I'm any better than anyone in this profession , but I do think that I probably love this profession a lot more than some people do.
Bethany: Why is that?
Shalsee: I think we have one of the most phenomenal, noble, amazing professions on the planet . I was gonna say it's no better than other healthcare professions because they're saving lives too. But I feel like we get to do it with less money, less research, like in the profession itself.
Like as a researcher, as [00:04:00] support less equipment, less insurance than human healthcare does. Like we do it with so much less and our patients can't even talk to us. It's like we do it with so much less and we still do such a good job, and the profession is so vast!
People who say, I went to vet school so I have to be a vet all of my life. Well, you're always gonna be a vet, but you don't have to be on a clinic floor. There's a thousand other roles in this profession that you can do and still be in it.
I think the world falls apart, they're not gonna be able to rebuild it without vets.
Shalsee: Like they can't, like we're involved in everything from food safety to zoonotic outbreaks, to pets, to farm animals- we are involved in everything. I don't think there's a better profession to be in. And I think that one of the reasons that I feel differently about it is I think if you have a fairly heirloom or a really expensive car or a beautiful house or a extremely expensive engagement ring. Like you treasure those things and you really take care of it.
Like you keep it clean and you protect it and you don't take it where there's danger and you do these things. And I think our profession [00:05:00] is the same way. Like I think it's a treasure and you're supposed to take care of it the way you take care of things. And we don't take care of it. Like, "Oh, I'm burned out, or I'm tired, or I don't wanna do this, or I don't protect it and I think we should protect it like it's a treasure because it really is.
Bethany: So tell us about your journey.
Shalsee: Um, I am older, 48 and I got my first job in a vet clinic when I was 15. And it was funny because I actually was thinking about this. In high school, my first boyfriend wanted to go to vet school and he went to college- I was a senior still- and he said, you need to get a job at a vet clinic if you wanna go to vet school. And so got a job at a vet clinic when I was 15. And I have worked in a vet clinic ever since.
I feel like I grew up with it from 15 to 48. I mean, what is that, 33 years ago? We were still doing things that we would never even consider doing now or things that we've learned to do better.
I grew up from cleaning poop up to getting to a medical director or running a hospital. So I feel like I've gotten to see every side of it and I still think it's amazing.
Anna: So [00:06:00] talk to us about the evolution from starting at 15 to what happened in the middle to where you're now.
Shalsee: So started in high school, went to college for vet school. My undergrad is in dairy cows, is my master's is with horses. I had worked in emergency the entire time. So I've worked in emergency since, since I started. I went to grad school and undergrad and then went to Ross University for vet school and then finished in Auburn 'cause I still thought I would probably do large animal and I did for the first year that I graduated until I realized emergency could be more than it was.
. My first job as a vet was in Florida and you know how everybody graduates, vet school and they like work a year and you learn then after the year, "I'm not happy here. This isn't what I wanted. I need to do something different."
You have more confidence in your belt. And so I really wanted to stay at my job longer than a year. I was like, "I want to find a great job." And I remember I interviewed for like, 15 jobs and I was going to my last interview and I called my dad and I was crying.
'cause I was like, "I see now why people just take the first job" [00:07:00] because everybody offered me a job. I had plenty of job offers, but none of them fit. And I was like, I see now why people take, just take a job and then have to figure it out. Um, and my last job in the interview, I'm like, "I want this job. I wanna work here."
I knew, I was like, this is where I wanna work. And he was like, "Well, I'm gonna offer it to you, so do you wanna talk about it now ?" I was like, "yes, I do." So I worked there for two years and I had every intention of working for two years and then going to do a residency in critical care. Way back then, because that was like almost 20 years ago, the only place you could work as a criticalist was basically a vet school.
Really? Like, there weren't many criticalist then. And I didn't wanna go back to that yet. I wanted to be in the clinic still. And so , didn't go to get a residency, and then moved to New Hampshire , and ran an emergency clinic there for five years, like right outside of Boston basically .
Then decided it was too cold there? Eight months out of the year it snows. So I was like looking in Southern California and Arizona and realized " I have two chihuahuas and I'm a vet. I can go anywhere in the world I want [00:08:00] to because we can get a job anywhere in the world that we want to."
Shalsee: Um, and I wanted to move to New Zealand-
I've always wanted to move to New Zealand, like always. My dad's said he had a New Zealand book on our coffee table when I was growing up and it was a big picture book. He was like, oh, I'm not surprised you wanna move to New Zealand? I was like, really? He's like, you've always wanted to move to New Zealand. I was like, yeah. I kind of have.
Anna: So then when you got there, yeah. How did you feel?
Shalsee: Um, it, I mean it was crazy. New Zealand's definitely very, very different from the states. It was really interesting because I took a role at an SPCA, not at straight emergency because New Zealand is a little bit behind us in veterinary medicine, and their shelter medicine is very different from ours- their shelters are huge there. Their SPCA's are a national entity there and they do a lot of good work. I still did emergency the whole time that I was there. It was probably five of the hardest years of my life actually when I was at that SPCA. So went over there to be the veterinary director there, SPCA, the one in Auckland.
And, um, it was crazy. It was like emergency without all the good things of emergency. Huge [00:09:00] amounts of animals coming. Our one specifically saw over 30,000 animals a year. And that's just that one SPCA, so their SPCAs are huge over there.
I think everyone should work in shelter medicine for a short period of time in veterinary medicine. 'cause I think you should work in all the areas to experience how amazing the profession is. And so I said I wouldn't work in a shelter longer than three years.
Shalsee: And when I got there, I was like, this is gonna take a longer than three years. They brought me over as kind of a change manager. So I said to them, if I'm still euthanizing pets every day, at five years, I'm leaving. Doesn't matter where we're at. Doesn't matter what project we're in the middle of. Doesn't matter what we're doing if I'm still doing this Ah, it's not healthy. Euthanizing pets is the hardest part of what we do. I think everybody knows that but it's also one of the best things we can do. But in a shelter setting, it's very different.
Very different. Like I set a limit that you couldn't as one individual, you couldn't euthanize more than 15 pets a day and someone else had to take over. Oh my God. Oh my God. And they threw a fit about having a limit because that was gonna limit the work they could do. It was the day I euthanized [00:10:00] 33 cats in a day.
And I was like, I'm done. This is not happening. We're not doing this anymore. And so it was hard. It was really hard, but I knew you have to find coping mechanisms to deal with an unhealthy situation. It's as healthy as you can make it, but you find coping mechanisms.
And I did not let it ruin how I feel about this profession.
Anna: What did you do that, I mean, that's very strong of you. That's not, not necessarily the case for everyone.
Shalsee: I think everybody finds some sort of coping mechanism. Mine was volleyball. I played volleyball every day. I think in our profession a lot people go home and drink a bottle of wine or they can find unhealthy ways. 'cause it's the only way. But this is the part of the protecting it, I think is it's special enough that I'm not gonna let that ruin it.
So I said, if I'm still doing this at five years every day, then I'm calling quits four years and 10 months. I was still euthanizing every day. So I said I gotta go. Um, and so I knew I'd go back to emergency in time. So I finished at the shelter and I worked at all the emergency clinics- there was [00:11:00] four really in Auckland.
I worked at all the emergency clinics to see which one I wanted to work at. I had done some locum work at one of them while I was at the SPCA to try and keep my sanity basically. And so it ended up they needed like a CEO slash medical director at the time, they didn't have one. And so I went back there and that's what I did until I came home.
Anna: People might ask how did you get licensed over there and find a job?
Shalsee: Yes. So if you're a vet, I mean some, even veterinary professionals, it depends. You can go. You can go almost anywhere in the world and get a job. It's one of the amazing things is we can do, we can go anywhere. And if, even now, as long as you went to an accredited vet school, and even if you didn't go to an accredited vet school, if you do the PAVE, um, you can still go to a lot of these countries.
Little did I realize though New Zealand is one of the hardest to do and to bring pets too, because I brought both my chihuahuas. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It is literally the hardest country in the world to get into with a pet. But because they're such a big export country that you do have to do quite a bit of stuff to get [00:12:00] there, but you can do it- it's absolutely feasible. Like you just have to want it.
Bethany: Hey there, it's Anna and Bethany. Thank you so much for supporting our podcast and following along with our journey. It means the world to us. We know if you're listening, you're likely a high achieving, perfectionistic veterinarian who struggles with control, anxiety, burnout, and the pressure of trying to do it all and to do it all flawlessly. Maybe you're feeling life is fine or good enough, but deep down, you know you were made for more.
Lucky for you, anna and I have some exciting news to share.
We are turning this podcast into a community for women and VetMed, just like you. We'll guide you to unlock the next level of freedom and fulfillment through our three step process.
The Evolve Vets [00:13:00] membership will include: race approved continuing education and exclusive community for women in VetMed, live monthly coaching calls with Anna and I, a library of meditation audios and early access to our retreats and workshops. Coming soon.
You can think of us as your go at your own pace Life coach that you can access at any time via our app. All you have to do is go to evolved vets.com, click start Your Journey, and download our app to get started at any time.
Together, let's stop revolving and start evolving.
Anna: Talk to us about what brought you back.
Shalsee: I wasn't ever gonna come back to the States actually. I was actually thinking about going to Australia 'cause I wanted to work with platypus. And I actually didn't even know about veg because veg started a year after I left the States. So I didn't even know, like, 'cause I've done emergency the whole time. I think I have this belief that emergency medicine is a specialty all on its own. Uh, we are all believing that [00:14:00] now, but like it is a specialty all its own. It has always been, we are lumped with critical care and we should be, but they're very, very different specialties.
But it's a specialty without a doubt. And, um, I couldn't practice emergency medicine the way I wanted to in New Zealand. So that's why I was looking to go. And my best friend who used to work at VEG, said, "Oh, why aren't you gonna come to VEG?" And I was like, "What is VEG?"
And she told me, I was like, nah, there's no way. There's no way. That's not true. I'm pretty sure I said that it was too good to be true to several people, even as I was going through the interview process. And Bethany actually sealed it when I'm like, all right, it's too good to be true. So what are the not too good parts? And she gave me two examples and I'm like, those are easily feasible. That's not a problem.
Bethany: Wait, what were my examples? I think said probably, um
Shalsee: We grow so fast that communication is hard. Which it is like VEG grows and it's a plus of what VEG does. Right. We see a better way to do something, so we change it.
But rolling that out to a hundred hospitals is hard on the communication side. But that's logical. You said communication is difficult and you said that people expect internal promotion immediately, [00:15:00] which VEG does amazingly well, but internal promotion isn't just you going to the next position or going to the next role. It's like, are you growing in yourself? Are you growing yourself in your medicine? Are you growing in your soft skills? Are you growing in your leadership skills? I think that coming from a profession where it's just the next promotion, in the next role, you forget how important all of this stuff is- like how important it's to be a good leader, how important it's to be inspirational, how important it's to focus on your career and focus on your mental well-being and focus on like what you need as a person. And I got that. I was like, yep, I get that one too.
Anna: So one thing that stands out when you tell your story is that you have this fierce commitment, like the commitment that you made to leave your job after five years if you're still doing euthanasias.
And then also the commitment to move to New Zealand, like go through all of the tests and things that you have to do to get there, and then to come back and just choose like a random place to live, but you're like, I'm gonna come back to the US. Can you just kind of talk to us about how you developed [00:16:00] that resolve and that confidence, the self-assuredness that you have?
Shalsee: I can think of lots of little things. I remember a time when I had graduated vet school I was in, working in Florida, and my dad had a friend who we had met and gone to dinner and apparently his friend asked "How did you raise a girl to be so confident?"
And he was like, "I don't know." And so he asked me one night. I had two friends in vet school who loved me through vet school. Like vet school's hard. Like it's hard and it should be hard. We are saving lives, like it should not be an easy route.
But they loved me no matter what I did wrong, no matter how bad I bombed something, no matter what boy I liked, no matter if I wanted to skip class and go play volleyball, like no matter what, they loved me and I realized I can do whatever I want. There are people that are gonna love me.
I think people in vet school meet people like that. Like I think you take away people like that because you're bonded in a way that you don't understand unless you go through something hard like vet school .
Shalsee: One of the amazing things about this profession is you can be in it [00:17:00] 50 years and still learn things from your nurse or your CC like still every day you can still learn something.
You can learn something every day. And so I feel like I will never know that all, but I feel like I'm good at it. And I think I'm good at it because I love it.
The only thing I attribute it to is I've done it so long that it's just. I think about those kind of things and that I know that I can make it better and I know I can make it better because I love it. Like I know it's coming from the right place. Like it's not that I wanna make more money or my clinic needs to do better, or it needs to look good. Like I know it's coming from the right place. And so I feel like I love it so I know my ideas are gonna come from the right place. It might not work, but we can try it.
Bethany: At the Evolved Vets, we commonly talk about the ability to know your values and what is true to you and what is authentic to you. Can you tell us a little bit about the things that are super important to you and you value in this life?
I think honesty is absolutely one of my core [00:18:00] values. And I think humility is too. I think heroic helping is probably like being able to help. I think that my bottom line is actually I know my why, like my, like core, core value why I do what I do and it's, I just wanna make animals lives better.
Shalsee: That's the gist of it. Like, that's all, it's gonna make me cry. That's like all I wanna do is make animals lives better. The bad thing is though, when you relay that, it really does boil down to the reason I wanna be a good leader or the reason I want a team to do well, or the reason I want to have a good culture.
Of course it's for people 'cause I want it to go well. But the gist is if we do all those things well, we're treating our patients better. Those animals lives are gonna be better. Like if everything gels and you're a good leader or your team is happy, like you're making your patients' lives better. And when you're not gelling or you're not doing well, you're not a good leader then you're not doing the best that you can for your patient.
Anna: It's a really good call out that you said it's your "why" and I would encourage everyone who's listening to find their [00:19:00] "why." Because when things get really tough, which I'm sure you have plenty of stories about, you go back to your "why."
And it does take some digging. Like ask yourself, you know, why, why do you like this? Why do you like, ask why like five or six times? Keep going until keep, keep going until you get emotional. Yeah. Like you just got so emotional. Yeah. Like that, that is your why.
Shalsee: If I'm coping poorly or I'm burnout or I'm upset or I'm not happy, like it does boil down to being not happy. If I'm not happy in a job, I believe that if you're not happy, you do everything that you can to change it. And if you cannot change it, then you walk away. Because I cannot do the best job for my patients if I'm not happy or if I'm burnout or if I'm unhappy.
So I think that my "why" says that's not acceptable. My "why" says you can't continue to behave like that because this is what's gonna happen.
Anna: - so I always say it's kind of like the euthanasia talk that I give sometimes. Like when you have more bad days than good days, then you know it might be time to make a decision. Yep. And I always apply that to my personal life if I'm in a [00:20:00] role or a situation- whatever- that I start to have more bad days than good days. Then I'm like, oh, it's time to change. Change. I need to pay attention. I'm not gonna sit here and suffer. I'm gonna do everything I can to, to change.
Shalsee: And I think you go, it goes through stages, right? Like you go through like opening a new hospital or change in a hospital or you go through stages where you're gonna have a lot of bad days, but knowing, okay, but these bad days are because there's an outcome that we're getting to season.
Like it's a season. I think when it gets to the point where this is not fulfilling my why. Yeah. I'm not happy it because my why will always be, well-
Bethany: You give it a timeline. I think this the other thing, right? Like if five years from now I'm still unhappy with this, or if you know, a year from now like, this still isn't filling my cup or meeting my needs, then you know, it's not a season.
It's like a permanent part of that role. That is not gonna serve you anymore.
Shalsee: And I think it comes back to the honesty thing. You have to be really honest with yourself. Yeah. Like more than with anyone else, but you have to be honest with yourself. What am I actually not happy about? Am I not happy 'cause I'm not doing the good job?
Am I not happy because the job's not gonna change? Like what is unhappy or what do I need to be [00:21:00] doing? And then it all, it can fit together.
Anna: This episode is sponsored by NextGen Financial Planning. If you're a veterinarian ready to align your money with the life you actually want. You need someone who gets it. Ashley Foster, CFP and founder of NextGen specializes in financial life planning, helping vets like you make values-based money decisions that create freedom and peace of mind.
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Bethany: Shalsee, I feel like you're one of the best people that I've worked with in the past that's really good at receiving feedback and then owning it and making change moving forward.
So [00:22:00] how did you get there and what advice would you have for people that maybe struggle with that?
Shalsee: There's always someone who can do a better job than you. There's always someone prettier than you. There's always someone better built than you and that's okay. Who cares? 'cause you're one of the people that are better than someone else at something like this can be even to dating. It can be in any scenario, like you know more than someone and someone knows more than you. You are like, if you go on a date or if you go to a new job or you interview for a job, they're like, they're just as nervous as you are.
Like just, they're just as nervous. They don't have anything better than you have. I think, the epitome of mind and heart battling like your heart's like, oh God, this is gonna be scary. I really need this job. Or I really like this guy, or What am I gonna do? And then your mind is like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
They wouldn't be interviewing you if they didn't need you for a role. Are you interviewing them too? You wouldn't be, he wouldn't have asked you out on a date if he didn't want like you, so he's just as nervous as you are. So I do think that's probably part of the confidence thing for me.
People are like, you're so confident about that. You're never nervous. I'm like, oh, I could be nervous, but I'm gonna talk myself out. Like, I'm gonna talk about logically why, like, it's [00:23:00] okay to be nervous. Like grab onto the nervousness. I like that, but I'm not gonna let it, like, ruin things for me.
Bethany: It sounds like you are able to understand that every thought that pops in your head shouldn't be believed. And you have an ability. To say like, that's a thought that isn't true. And I'm gonna reframe my mindset to have a more positive outlook or like, Hey, they're probably a little bit uncomfortable the same way I am.
Shalsee: I think anyone listening to this podcast, because they're gonna have some of the same like personalities or same drive, you need to look into perfectionism.
We are all perfectionists. That's how we become successful. It's a positive reward. Like we move forward and we get the things we want by being perfectionists. It's really hard on you. There is a point when perfectionism becomes negative. And I was in a perfectionist study and the thing I took away from the study is if you heard someone talking to your best friend, the way you talk to yourself, would you allow it?
Basically if you say something negative about yourself, it's like, oh, itty bitty, shitty committee's talking. And you have to then say three positive things about [00:24:00] yourself, which is actually a lot. Like, I'm like, oh, I can do that.
Shalsee: It's a lot harder than people think. It literally brought back that whole perfectionist study when it was like, why are you saying things about yourself that you wouldn't let someone say about your best friend?
Bethany: It sounds like the study that you were a part of resulted in people that had perfectionistic tendencies were more self-critical.
Shalsee: Yep. That ends up burning us out because we have such a high standard, and the bad thing is, is our high standard gets us places, it gets us recognized, it gets us promotions, it gets us where we wanna be. So we keep doing it. You're so critical of yourself that you just over and over again build that up. And so I think it's a, a lot in our profession with imposter syndrome. Like we all have it. Like I think I'm confident, I think even said, I think I'm good at this profession.
I'll do things and be like, "what am I doing? I don't know what, why are they asking me? I don't know what I'm doing. And then I'm, yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. Okay. I do, I do. I do. I do.
Bethany: So your itty bitty shitty committee comes online. Your inner critic comes on and says, you don't know what you're doing here. And then you have the ability [00:25:00] and the resiliency to give self-compassion and say, okay, a thought I'm having is that I'm not actually good at this. But the truth of this actually is that I am really good. I'm probably pretty good at it, and I'm qualified. Yeah. And I just have to have faith in my resources, in my process. And we'll find a solution together.
Shalsee: One of the things too, and I think this is people can take negative, I think this is taking a negative situation and doing that with it. When I was at the SPCA going as a change manager, one of the things is we had quite a few staff that had been there a really long time. Were not happy to be there. And that reflected in how they treated people and how they treated patients. And, it was a very harsh process to change that. And at one point someone said to me, why are you still doing this? Like, just walk away. And I was like, 'cause no one's gonna change it if I don't, like I can finish this out and change it, 'cause it just too hard.
I was like, no one's gonna change it if I don't, so I can do this. Like, I didn't think I could do this. Definitely didn't think I could do it. Like, but I'm like, no one will change it if I don't. So, and it's the same with any role in [00:26:00] any job. Like you think I can't do this? Yeah, you can. Yeah, you can try it.
What's the worst that happens? You fail and you realize why you failed it and then you get better at that point. And then say, okay, well I'll get better at that. And then I don't fail. I think in our profession we look at failure as a bad thing, which is understandable. It's medical.
Usually when we fail, something bad happens. Human medicine fails even a thousand times more than we do. What we learn from is our failures the most usually. I think that we are way too critical of ourselves. I think that if you have a little voice in your head that's like, eh, eh, you can do this. Just, just try it anyway.
Anna: And it's a very logical response that you're having, right? Yeah. Like, which we're all scientists we can understand. And so it is a logical approach that you're taking. Was this study that you were in, was it a veterinary study?
Shalsee: Nope.
Anna: It was different. It's easy to say like. You know, we're all perfectionists. We kind of all know that. But like, what got you here won't get you there. Like how do you act? How do you actually change?
Shalsee: I think it's little pieces at a time, to be honest, and I say this because I think emergency medicine saved my life. [00:27:00] As an ADH kid there's such a thing as delayed sleep syndrome. So I I wasn't up before 10:00 AM I couldn't be up before 10:00 AM but I was never the lazy kid because I worked overnights.
So I think that you find one of the things that like can work with it, and I think you over and over again, it's that whole positive reinforcement thing you just keep doing it. You keep, oh, that worked. If I did it better, oh this worked. If I do it that way, oh, this worked if I do it that way.
And I don't think people have to know that this is what I wanna do the rest of my life. That you don't have to know that. Like, okay, I'm gonna go all in. And even if you'd set a time limit, you can screw up and learn it and say, oh, I'm gonna try this, I'm gonna try that.
Shalsee: Oh, that didn't work, so I'll try something else. So I think, I think we're a bit afraid to fail. Everybody fails. Everybody fails. Literally.
Bethany: I appreciate all the things that you said there about perfectionism and us being afraid to fail.
It's such a interesting concept and something that we touch on a lot at the Evolved Vets. It sounds like you're really good at [00:28:00] transitioning that fear into a learning opportunity and instead of saying, this happened to me, this is happening for me. And I love that growth mindset. And I'm curious, is there one tip or trick that you could give to us and our listeners that would really help transform that thought process?
Shalsee: Yep. You might know this 'cause I have it up at the hospital. I don't think we collaborate enough. I don't think we ask for help enough. Maybe it's part of the failure thing, the like it is okay to not know all the answers.
And I think it's how you learn and that's how you grow and that's how you realize, oh, I could do that better if I did this. I think in this profession, it's one of the reasons our profession has struggled is we get in this mindset or this silo idea that we have to practice. And there's a lot of people who practice in one doctor practice, or even if there's several doctors, they're still practicing alone.
And I think that we get in this mindset that we have to have the answers and we can't change and we can't ask someone and we can't grow from it. If you are not growing, you are dying. That is just like everything on earth that grows, if it stops growing, it's gonna die. You're growing or you're dying.[00:29:00]
And so growing is not easy. They don't call it growing pains because it feels good. Like it hurts to grow. Like it's scary and it's like. At my hospital I have from a book. It's a quote. It's, it's a from a book: "The Boy, the Mole, the Fox and the Horse." And it's by Charles McAfee. He's an English author, and I don't know if you, I mean, he's an author, but this book isn't a, like, literary book. It's like when go through it's pictures and it's these, this boy, this mole, this horse and this fox are on this journey together, and they learn lessons from each other.
Um, and the boy says to the horse, "What's the most courageous thing you've ever said?" And the horse says, "Help. I've asked for help." Like, ugh, we don't ask for help because it's scary. Like, we don't ask for help because we should know the answers. We don't ask for help because we should have it. Or if asking for help means I don't know as well as I should, and you might know better than me. And that's a really vulnerable place to be. So we don't ask for help. And I think if we looked at it like, well, I'm not asking for help because I'm afraid that I don't know the answer, then you're like, oh, well I'm gonna ask for help.
But we don't think about that. [00:30:00] And so I think if that is the way to grow with each other, you're gonna know a thousand things. I don't know. The last thing I learned was from a nurse who had been a nurse for like six months and I was like, had I not know this? Oh my God, that's amazing. Thank you for teaching me." I think the growth mindset, it, it isn't just technical. Like it isn't just how do I get better at a surgery? Or how do I get better at placing catheters? It's how do I get better at dealing with people? How do I get better with angry clients? How do I get better dealing with euthanasia, like euthanasia is actually an amazing part of the job that we do, but it's hard. So how do I get better at that? How do I protect it? I think you have to grow. You have to grow. And if you're not growing. Probably need to evaluate why you're not growing and growing is not comfortable.
Asking for help is not comfortable. Like we, uh, talk about it, like it's cool and it's easy, and it's great. It's really, really hard.
Bethany: Do you think that the correlation between this perfectionism and then that discomfort is related?
Shalsee: Yep. Because we're not perfect then. Well, I'm supposed to [00:31:00] have all the answers. I'm supposed to know, I'm supposed to be able to do this.
And people either get defensive or they shut up or they act like they knew it. Like every single person. It's not even if you're purposely prideful or you're purposely not growing, like it's just your reaction to be like, "oh, I should know that. . And like every time, I think if you just catch yourself and be like, "oh, I didn't know that. Can you tell me about that later?" every time it gets easier and easier and easier, your growth mindset grows with it.
And all the people around you appreciate it because they're like, if you were willing to say what you didn't know and they knew something you didn't, and they're willing to learn because it's part of growing, but it's the same thing. If some, a nerd, like a brand new nerd graduate can say something, you're like, oh, I didn't know that.
And you automatically think, or you've done something a certain way and someone else says that that's not the way to do it anymore. The best way. You're like, oh yeah, it is. Okay, wait, why is that not all right? I'm gonna do it this way 'cause I'm in the middle of it. But when we're done, I want you to tell me why you said that.
Like it's not easy to do, but the more you do it, the easier it gets. Which is common. Like you say that and it's [00:32:00] common knowledge and it feels like, yeah, of course. In the middle of it you're like, it's hard. Oh, this hurts
Anna: Because you feel like you might be judged, right? Absolutely. Or I can speak for myself. Yes. I feel like I might be judged like I don't know the answer to this, or I don't know the answer to that , but I think the reality that I often find is maybe there will be some people who think that's, that's fine..
You know what I'm saying? Um, but yeah, I think that you've just gotta be super humble about it. Mm-hmm. And people, when you say that you don't know and you thank someone for teaching you something Yep. Makes them feel really good too.
Shalsee: Absolutely. A hundred percent. Like they're gonna realize that you're willing to listen when you don't know something.
Or that you're willing to ask them or that you value their opinion. Which is true, but we sometimes don't show that way. Right.
Bethany: Sometimes you just keep it in your head 'cause you're trying to keep up this facade mm-hmm. Of perfectionism. And so then it doesn't celebrate the other person. It doesn't show that vulnerability and that understanding.
But if you do that action , it almost transforms not only that relationship, but the mutual respect.
Shalsee: I feel like. [00:33:00] Anytime you feel like, Ooh, that wasn't comfortable. It doesn't matter what it's about. This doesn't have to be in the veterinary profession, but in our profession or in people who would be listening to this podcast, like anytime you feel, I call it an itch, like when things are going well, it feels like silk.
Like everything's smooth and everything feels like silk up against you. But when it itches like burlap and you're like, Ooh, that itches, why? Why is it itching? Is it itching? 'cause you need to do something better in yourself. Or is it itching 'cause you didn't like the way something said? Or in your culture, are you, is it itching?
'cause you did that needs to be a like better interaction. Like if, and that's comes back to the honesty I think. Like why does that itch?
Bethany: I love that because it's highlighting the self-reflection piece. And that's a lot of what we do in our meditations, our elevations and our integrations is actually what in me is being triggered about this other person.
Yep. You know, what is it inside me? And doing that deeper reflection to better understand. Okay. I need to actually heal that part of my inner child in order to be able for it to become more like silk every time and less itchy.
Anna: So we have this [00:34:00] meditation that we've created called Shift Shedding. Yep. So the idea is that we work these long shifts. Yep. I already know where this is going. A million things happen, right? Just thinking. Yeah. You do like these euthanasias, you maybe have like DOAs you have puppies come in or C-section of surgery like cprs, everything. Many things and so many emotions. And you have to move fast in ER, in GP all over it, right? You have to move fast. We're all juggling a million things. Team dynamics, all of it. And then, and maybe you're dealing with stuff in your personal life and then you finish your shift.
And then you were like, are worrying about that surgery? Did I do that thing right or did I talk to the customer right? Or did I put the thing in my records? Do I need to go home and check that I did my records? Right? Yeah. It, and so we created a meditation for veterinarians or any veterinary professional that you'll listen to right after your shift.
Maybe it's on your car ride home, or you just go on a quick walk outside afterwards. Or you get home and you sit on your couch before you talk to anyone else or do anything else, and you [00:35:00] let that go.
Shalsee: Then I would recommend every single person who doesn't have a method yet to try that with you. Yes. Because absolutely. A hundred percent.
Anna: Yeah. I mean, you've gotta do something with that. Like you can't ignore it or push it away like you have to when you have strong emotions,
Shalsee: You can, and people do. And that's part of the problem. Exactly. Don't you have to don't that to yourself.
Anna: It's okay. It's okay to be sad. It's okay to be mad.
Shalsee: It's okay to cry. It's like, it's okay.
Anna: Yeah.
Shalsee: Yeah.
Bethany: So if you could give one piece of advice to a fellow female veterinarian or veterinary professional, what would it be?
Shalsee: You are as badass as the next person. Don't underestimate yourself. Like you can do, if you decide you wanna do it, do it.
And if you decide you don't like doing it, stop. You can pivot. Like this profession has a thousand areas for you to go into and it's an amazing one. You can do it. Don't let anyone tell you can't there's no reason. Like you are just as good as the next person. Probably better.
Don't underestimate yourself and be honest with yourself [00:36:00] because we're gonna screw up. It's okay.
Bethany: If somebody wanted to get in contact with you or wanted to reach out to you because they were inspired by your podcast, what's the best way for them to do that?
Shalsee: LinkedIn. Instagram. It's all Shalsee. Shalsee and Shalsee.
Anna: S-H-A-L-S-E-E.
Shalsee: Yeah, it's all just Shalsee. So, yeah, it's pretty easy. It's perfect.
Anna: Pretty special.
Bethany: Well, thanks for coming. It was so fun learning from you and about your resiliency and your commitment to the profession and making it fun.
Anna: It is, it's a good one.
I mean my, my takeaway from this is just like. You've been in, in the industry and seen so much and you've done so many different jobs and it's, it's just really beautiful that you've found all of these ways to cope in a healthy way, to set boundaries in a healthy way, and to always go back to your "why."
So that hearing you talk after being in emergency and shelter medicine of all the things that, that veterinary medicine is such a treasure. And that's a story that we're trying to tell with the Evolved Vets- we want everyone to feel like the, the veterinarian that they wanted to be when they were [00:37:00] five years old.
Shalsee: And we can be, we just gotta take care of it.
Anna: Follow along on Instagram at Evolved Vets and let us know how it worked for you. And if you haven't already check out our freebie that we have if you just go to our website or linked in the show notes you can put in your email and you can have access to our Dreams Journal. This is the journal, that we use every single morning to create our Magical Mornings.
It includes everything from having some movement, some stillness, meditation, to journaling out things that you're grateful for. This is such an awesome start to the day. So download it today.
Until next time, let's stop revolving and start evolving.
